New Super GT Honda Confirmed
November 15, 2009 by Peter Horniak
Filed under Japanese News, Latest Articles
With the last race of this year’s Super GT already over and done with, fans of Honda have been left wondering what will replace the current NSX GT car for next season.
Due to new Super GT regulations forcing the use of FR cars for the 2010 season, fans of the mid-engine Honda saw the last race of their venerate NSX earlier this month at Twin Ring Motegi Circuit here in Japan. With it’s first debut back in 1997 at the then All Japan GTC (followed by the JGTC and now Super GT), the NSX has had an illustrious career, claiming 49 poles with 36 race wins from 105 starts. With all this, Honda and the NSX teams have obviously attracted a multitude of fans and supporters over the last 13 years. But now, with rule changes forcing the end of the NSX’s career, Honda has announced that it will continue it’s participation in the Super GT. With an FR S2000 you say? Well no, actually with none other than it’s shelved FR Super Sports V10.
The shelved project, which had to be put on permanent hold along with Honda’s F1 involvement due to the economic crisis, will find new life and will be used as the base for the GT car in season 2010.
But surely it’s not possible!? While at first the idea may seem a little far fetched it all makes good sense. Before being given the axe, the FR V10 was under going development and work on a Super GT variant was already in place. It’s release was to coincide with the release of the road going version into the market. Times have changed though and whilst the race version of the car will be released next year, its road friendly counterpart will not. Honda will use special permission from the organizers of Super GT to allow this to happen and let the car compete in the GT 500. This will also let Honda off the homologation hook, meaning no limited run of V10s will have to be made or sold unlike the unicorn like NSX-R GT. (More photos below)
While details at this point in time are still sketchy, Honda will be releasing more details shortly and we await what FR goodness will be in store for us come 2010.
Words: Peter Horniak
Images: Super GT, Best Car, Honda Motor Co.
“Times have changed though and whilst the race version of the car will be released next year, its road friendly counterpart will not.”
I was smiling and hoping until I’ve read that part. Then the sky has fallen, well, I already knew that after I reed it in an interview with Nobu Ito in witch he said that Honda won’t make expensive and not eco friendly supercar “like the LF-A”, he also said that Honda “has a surprise” for us at the LA or Detroit Auto Show. Oh, Mr. Ito if you only want to show the race only V10 supercar, don’t bother.
Stingray, the suprise is a Honda Insight one-make race car!*
*probably not
I’m all for the spirit of the race, but only if the playing field is as close to even as possible. Play by the rules like everyone else Honda, release a roadgoing version or bust! Super GT is about racing cars that are available to the public, if you want to run competition only prototypes then you should have started shelling out bucks to the ALMS (which is a damn fine racing series if I may add). No exceptions Super GT organizers, and I don’t care how much Honda paid you.
“Super GT is about racing cars that are available to the public, if you want to run competition only prototypes then you should have started shelling out bucks to the ALMS.”
yeeeah… cause those super GT cars are available to the public. I’ve never seen anything on the streets with fender flares and rear wings like that. That’s like saying that NASCAR Stock cars are based on their road-going counterparts, and we all know that’s a load of crap. I don’t see what difference it makes. So what if Honda isn’t required to create a road-going car? Owning one wouldn’t be like driving the real thing anyway.
LoL Justin, if they put the 200hp engine from the Civic Type R in those Insights, it can be a good idea.
Err…Nineball, Ken is right, Super GT cars are closer to real cars and real racing then NASCAR will ever be, those cars are more closer to FIA GT and to the german DTM then are to NASCAR, I agree that they aren’t almost stock like the ones used in the WTCC, but still, even in NASCAR, they don’t use prototypes. Oh and Honda is already in the ALMS, with the Acura prototype.
“Super GT is about racing cars that are available to the public”
I don’t think you’ve ever read the regulations……
Those cars aren’t even close to a road car. More along the lines of monocoque silhouette racer. With a massively flared body on top.
Nineball and AdoubleA: I think K’ was alluding to the Super GT cars being “rooted” in publicly available cars like the Toyota Soarer/ SC430 and the Nissan GT-R. I agree with him about Super GT being about cars available (or have been available) to the public, that’s where the connection is with many of the fans that attend the races. Have a look at the commotion that was present when the Subaru Legacy GT300 finally took to the track, 1,000s of Subaru fans were there and it’s no surprise that the Legacy exceeded its sales targets around that time (and prior to the GT300 debut).
“Win on Sunday buy on Monday”…
FR-only platforms for next year? I guess if no one is making them anymore then might as well change the rules. The new NSX looks awesome though, it’s a shame the LF-A won’t have it as a rival as it would’ve made an interesting match up.
K’, I think AdoubleA is right
If you’ve ever get to see a GT car in the flesh, they’re the furthest thing from a road going car you’ll ever see. Massive lashes of carbon fiber through out, no standard looking interior and the engines.. well.. that’s another story all together too.
GT Cars are rooted in their road going versions, but when you put them next to each other, there is a world of difference.
In regards to Honda paying to enter the car, I don’t know how true or not that is. As I mentioned, Honda was developing this GT version side by side with the road going version. If Honda were not to compete, it would be a huge disappointment for fans, and maybe an even bigger loss for Super GT themselves.
Seems some folks might have confused my post some. What I meant was that should Honda race this car in Super GT, they should also release a road going VARIANT. A production model, a limited run homologation for the public. Something. Anything. I understand that GT cars are barely even a shell of their original counterparts but that’s the thing; they actually HAVE production counterparts. I don’t think it’s fair that Honda is allowed to register this prototype car into Super GT when manufacturer’s such as Nissan and Toyota have their production models on the street or are planning to (GT-R and LF-A respectively).
Peter: The Honda “bribing” the organizers thing is just something I threw up in the air, there’s really no validity to it I was just using it to reinforce an opinion. I could have easily said “and I don’t care how much of a slump Honda’s in” or “I don’t care how much Honda begged the organizers” but I didn’t want Honda to look like another GM
I don’t think anyone here would argue the difference between a Super GT car and the production car it’s based on. It is a big issue if Honda (for whatever reason) are allowed to circumvent the rules in order to compete, I only hope this concession is a one off and eventually public support for the NSX V10 is so great that Honda actually releases it in the not too distant future.
I hope that’s the case as well, kind of like allowing Honda some time to get their works together and release a car to the public.
“Honda, we’ll give you ‘x’ amount of time/races/etc. before you actually have to release your production model. Consider this a loan of sorts”
Something like that.
Guys, as much as I agree with the idea of having Honda releasing a road going variant of its super GT car, I gotta say that I’m happy to see they EVEN interested on keeping participating on super GT under such conditions. Prototype or not, having them stay is far much better than having them leaving the sports altogether, like is being happening on several other categories they participate.
K : basically, are u saying that HONDA will do it like BMW with previous generation of BMW M3 GTR? OR NSX limited edition (rumor to be only 5 ever produced)? Then those who get those limited edition is a really lucky dog…
somehow, this really losing it’s fun… JGTC shouldn’t start this rules since not many car has mid engine… well, nsx is aging already, so it’s fine to bring out new model, but i hope they don’t use nsx badge…
the problem will surface when the rumor car start to winning… nissan, lexus and all sort won’t keep quiet… and the last but not least, i hope it won’t be like lf-a… this is my opinion, feel free to argue, lf-a is quite a failure… so let’s hope Mr. Ito bring up our smile back…
idk: Yes, something like that. Just enough to at least qualify for the races. It doesn’t even have to be in large production numbers like the 370Z, it could be in smaller numbers like the GT-R.
I’m with you on the FR only rule, there won’t be as much variety now if it’s limited to FR layouts. It’s not like MR cars were dominating the courses so much they had to make a rule to even out the playing field.
Just been looking at the Super GT website and I see RE Amemiya still running the FD3S RX7. I wonder if Mazda will do the same thing and bring out a non production special like Honda have done to replace it seeing as it looks like the RX7 replacement is dead?
k: to tell the truth… last year.. winning most is GT-R not NSX (still NSX has been chewing GT-500 for several years before that)… well, to tell the truth, mid-engine car does have several advantages over front or front-mid car… by the way, let’s predict… there will be no longer mid-engine supercar from japan until JGTC revert back it decision…
celica-xx: i wonder about that… my opinion is RX-7 is the best car they ever made (as far as i concern)… rx-8 is a fine car but shadow over by it’s predecessor… they may struggle for a while to bring a car running on rotary… still i read on some small rumor that MAZDA want to concentrate on ALMS… so if they do ever bring out a halo car, it may destined to be in ALMS…
I doubt not letting Honda run this car in GT500 will pull them out of the races, though they’ll be severely limited to GT300 class almost solely due to GT500 regulations on engine choices (which is not in Honda’s favor this year, unfortnately). They can still run the S2000 for a few more years or even the TL or TSX (or Insight just for craps and giggles). If they REALLY wanted to they can kind of circumvent the production model rule by masquerading that prototype in an S2000 skin…but that’s just my take on it.
As for Mazda, maybe they’ll run the Furai concept that I’ve been drooling over for a while…
S2000? Seem like a bit unreal for me… Say any that they can do but the chassis itself is compact and small… is JGTC rules allow modifying the chassis? i never come across that… still someone who familiar with the rules may explain this… with S2000 chassis sizes… it’s hard to imagine that they can last for few years on…
of course there is out there that 900++ bhp S2000, the question are… can it run for at least 7 round of the season for each year (longer it can run is better)? how about the chassis rigidity after every single round? last but not least… how big of tire it can put on? so far as i watch JGTC, every single car use tyre wider that the seat in the car…
furai concept huh…. i kind of remember that it suppose to run in ALMS… still didn’t hear anything about it since the project manager for that car switch to another company (forgot his name and the company he moved on), to tell the truth, MAZDA glorious days are over, still i want them to shine again, not to back to it’s peak but surpasses them… i remember when i was still an ignorant kid, the first race i acknowledge is among RX-7, SUPRA and GT-R R32, now, both of them left MAZDA behind… come on, MAZDA, you got my support…
Hopefully they will not get to compete & thus forcing their hand to sell this to the public. Then again, recent history suggests that Honda/Acura will just say ’screw it’ to everything.
@celica-xx & i dont know: the RE Amemiya RX7 isnt actually sponsored by Mazda, so the decision would be totally up to RE Amemiya whether to change it or not…seeing as they specialize in modifying RX7s more than any other car, its perfect advertising for what they do, and their GT300 RX7 is very compeditive so theres no reason to waste the time and money changing to a newer car model
@Mosura: i agree, although the only part of the SuperGT car that would be the same as the road car would be part of the chassis around the cabin area…so the link would be almost non-existent anyway
its also worth pointing out that this car is going to have a 3.4L V8 as stipulated by the 2010 SuperGT GT500 rules, so theres no chance at all of it having a V10
The IC: “its also worth pointing out that this car is going to have a 3.4L V8 as stipulated by the 2010 SuperGT GT500 rules, so theres no chance at all of it having a V10″
Are you sure? The rules also say that: “If permitted by the GTA, engine with other specification can be used by conducting adjustment of performance, etc.”
I’m not saying it won’t be a V8, just that it’s entirely possible that the V10 could make an appearance.
What Justin said. I would think that if the Super GT organizers were going to allow a un-homolgated car to compete they’d let it run whatever engine was in it as well, as long as there wasn’t a power advantage.
The JAF changed SuperGT engine rules to be in line with 2011 LMP1 engine rules, Honda already builds the required 3.4L V8 engine for their LMP Acura and for Formula Nippon (the SC430 is already running the Toyota FNippon engine),…if the JAF suddenly allowed Honda to run a V10 when they already build the specified 3.4L V8, it would be flying in the face of all the rule changes that have been planned since 2 years ago…if Honda is being forced to move to an FR chassis to fit with the new rules, why would they then get to use a an engine that doesnt fit the new rules?
“The only engine permissible is a normally aspirated V-shaped 8-cylinder engine with the cylinder capacity of 3,400cc and was approved by JAF.”
That is what Honda has to build to, the GTA exception is just going to let privateer teams run FIA GT spec cars in GT500, like the Hitotsuyama DBR9 that was in a few races this year
The IC: You may very well be right, all I’m saying is that the GTA have already allowed Honda to run a car which hasn’t met the homologation requirement, why would they be required to meet the engine requirement as well in respect to the clause aimed at the privateer teams wishing to run FIA GT spec cars as you mentioned? I’m keeping an open mind about this (including Honda running a V8 from the LMP like you say).
@Justin: Yes, but the un-homologated chassis is being allowed for performance parity, so theres a logical reason behind it…all the cars would then have the same drivetrain layout, same engine, same HP limit etc. …the V10 would just complicate it all again, Nissan and Lexus would get annoyed and want new engines etc. etc.
Also, even if the JAF allowed it for wahtever reason, Hondas CEO would probably block it after what he said about V10s a month ago
despite all this, im pretending the GT500 LFA HV-R 3d rendition im working on still has a V10 in it
GT500 LFA HV-R…
Imagine that, an all hybrid Super GT field!
Looks like this has become quite the lively topic.. We will be keeping our ears to the ground for more clues or details from Honda. Hopefully we’ll be able to clear up what engine will be powering this machine shortly too.