That Doesn’t Sound Like A Boxer…
November 3, 2009 by Justin Karow
Filed under Latest Articles
Adam Zillin was at the Tokyo Motor show and mentioned briefly that the FT-86, when started and revved, sounded nothing like a flat-four engine. Derek from Pacificcoastjdm.com thought he’d head over to the TMS and investigate a little further and has sent us a short video of what he heard.
For a little background on what brought this up, see the comments section here. At the Toyota stand at the Tokyo Motor Show they’ve installed speakers somewhere underneath the rear or in the exhausts of the FT-86 and were playing sounds recorded while the 086A test car was circling the Nurburgring. It certainly doesn’t sound like a boxer engine so it begs the question: if the sounds coming from the FT-86 definitely aren’t a boxer four, why would Toyota use such an audio track for the display and not a real EJ20 sound clip? It’s probably a case of ”don’t read between the lines too much”, but we’ve seen a few times now that Toyota is very keen on hearing what future FT-86 buyers think of their concept and all this could be a stunt to gauge reaction. Who knows, if enough noise is made maybe we could see an in-line four cylinder engine find its way into the FT-86? If it did it’d certainly patch up the broken link between the AE86 and its successor. We at 7Tune are all hoping that this is Toyota’s way of hinting that there could be a very big difference under the hood between the Toyota and Subaru versions of the FT-86.
Words: Justin Karow
Video: Derek @ Pacificcoastjdm.com
Nope, doesn’t sound like a boxer at all. Hmmm, maybe Toyota will put some new jz power in it! Lol, sike:P
Sounds raspy. Really raspy like a old B16A at 7000+ rpms. That’s another thing I’ve been wondering is whether the FT86 will get variable valve gear or not? Suby doesn’t have it but could it make an appearance on this car? Everybody has it nowadays.
Where have I heard something similar before…
Definitely not a boxer though, not even a boxer with D4S, VVT, or even a different cam profile. It’s just not an HO engine period. I’m not a Subie expert or anything so maybe someone else can chime in.
On the plus side it’s sort of a good thing that we’ll be seeing new tech from Toyota on the car instead of Subaru tech. I mean it wouldn’t matter to me but if the only thing the two shared were a bare chassis then it’s better so the two can flex their muscles instead of having two or three trims of a car that’s been double/triple rebranded (*ahem* Geo Prizm, Pontiac Vibe, *ahem*).
It’s been stated that Toyota is going for a FM engine layout. In other words, the engine will be behind the front axle.
Subaru is rumored to be putting 4wd into theirs. This begs the question, How can the Subaru version get 4wd in such a small package without moving the engine to the standard engine on the front axle configuration?
The answer might be different engines between the two.
I have seen first hand how Toyota is really trying to push the 86-ness of the car. Club4ag.com was officially polled by the development team to find out what the customer wants. There was a big NO BOXER response so this could be Toyota’s little secret…
I was always of the opinion that Toyota would do what they *could*, not what we *wanted* but this is good news if it’s true. Saying that though I’d be happy with the EJ20 FT-86.
It’s just as I thought. Admittedly I was about 25 meters away from the car when they started it but as I may have mentioned previously, I own an STi Forester with an EJ25T in it and knew immediately that something horizontally opposed was up here. The fact they wouldn’t let us look under the bonnet cemented the deal for me. I wonder what Toyota is playing at?
Perhaps they used equal length exhaust headers?
Maybe a new type of 4AGE! But it does sound like Celica 1.8 engine, I wonder what is Toyota up to?
I was always a little concerned with the low output of the engine for such an interesting car. Im really hoping this is going to be a cheap usable sports car. Would I be barking up the wrong tree to suggest it still could be a Hybrid?!?!!??!?!
130tc: Be veeeeery careful about mentioning hybrid and FT-86 in the same sentence… it could start a riot!
Seriously though, it wouldn’t surprise us at all if Toyota made the FT-86 an in-line 4 of some description (with a little more power) and left the whole “symetrical AWD” and flat four business to Subaru. If anything, Toyota’s insistence on keeping its ears open to what potential buyers have to say at what still is an early stage in development, it tells us that we could very well see some big changes to the FT-86 before it hits prototype stage.
It could get very interesting in the next few months…
I’m convinced they will be keeping their brand identities separate and that means an inline 4 for the FT86 and a horizontally opposed boxer for the new Rex. There is no other way from a commercial standpoint. If they were to put a boxer in the 86, the whole project would wreak of blasphemy in an automotive sense.
I’m sorry! As a N/A suby owner, I have to agree. That is NOT a boxer in there, but yes a inline 4. Even an EJ25 with equal length headers as “FT86″ stated above doesn’t completely remove the boxer sound. It sounds too much like a high revving inline 4.
that’s just my 2 cents
The flat four would be the best option for this car. It could sit further back in the bay and provide a better weight distribution.
Which Toyota 4 cylinder has D-4S and will mate to a 6 speed? None at the moment (that I know of), the closest thing to it would be the 2AR found in the current Camry models. Even then they still don’t have direct injection. I wouldn’t doubt if the new FT engine will be some sort of 2AR with D-4S. Imagine that…a 4 cylinder that’s over 2 liters with torque to spare. Now that I think about it some, why would Toyota really want to incorporate new technology on Subaru’s nearly 20 year old EJ platform when they can keep on improving on their own newer engines with dual VVT-i and all that good stuff? Seriously?
I like Derek’s post about Toyota actually listening to customer response. I take to this because I belong to a forum (Solaraguy w00t!) where customer response made an actual impact on one of Toyota’s dying models; the Toyota Solara. The model was way past it’s prime (in terms of popularity) and was due to be canned last year, now production has extended to somewhere around 2010. So I guess either 086A fans made enough noise about the boxer engine or incorporating Subaru’s boxer engine with Toyota’s D-4S is proving too costly or unprofitable. Or possibly both.
Back to that exhaust note though…anyone have a clip of a 2AR or 2ZZ engine (just for fun)?
May be that’s why it didn’t sound like a flat 4…
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101
Before anyone gets their panties in a notch, I’d like to express that my opinions are very radical (if you haven’t noticed already) so try not to give yourselves aneurysms while reading my posts. I’d rather throw out a bunch of realistic “maybes” and have some be confirmed (or shot down) than sit around and wait for Toyota/Subaru to spill the beans. It’s all part of the thrill.
Side note: I really can’t rule out the EJ though because it is a tried and true engine. While it may be time to move up in the world the pictures show otherwise in that it still has a dual exhaust setup corresponding to boxer engines. I wish we had some footage of the car at idle or low engine speeds.
they probably had equal length headers on the boxer engine.
i have a subaru and i’ve seen my friends with equal length headers on there subaru’s and it just removes the boxer sound and kinda sounds like that video clip. but it do gain more power with equal length headers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0djqtSErDg&NR=1
this is the “best” NA EJ motor sound with EL header I could find…
I have this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqnuj58lFQI
But it’s of the EG engine. Not much of a difference from an EJ22 besides two extra cylinders but even at high rev it has a slightly noticeable boxer tone to it off throttle.
I have to remove my previous statement after reading the FT86club thread. I’ve heard Impreza RS’s in person with equal length headers and at low rpm and idle the boxer rumble is still there. That’s why I thought that it not to be a boxer.
K’ brought up a excellent point, the dual exhaust setup. We’ve all seen the newer imprezas ad they are ricking the dual exhaust setup too.
Why can’t toyota/subaru just give us a peek under the hood.
I love the EFI EG33 swapped Impreza. Ive see that thing in person and its just an absolute work of art.
Found this video after I posted my 1st comment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj63wKQVGKc
This video shows the clear difference between equal and un-equal length headers and you can hear the car in low and high RPMs with equal length headers
Sry guys, but that sounds like the Grand Tourismo Video (Shifting and at the end Tiressounds)- no fact at all.
If it gives any insight, I do remember reading somewhere that this new boxer wasn’t fully Subaru like the 2ZZ wasn’t fully Toyota. IIRC the heads were developed by Toyota. Which makes PERFECT sense seeing as how they’re trying to incorporate D-4S into the boxer.
2ZZ – the head is developed by Yamaha, AFAIK.
No I meant the heads on the new boxer engine being designed by Toyota. I fully agree with you on the head of the 2zz by Yamaha though.
Once again, we really can’t rule out the boxer because of the Toyota head in order to incorporate D-4S. The whole point of D-4S is “High fuel efficiency, high performance, and cleaner exhaust emissions” (quoted from TMC’s website); lower emissions, higher revs.
The car doesn’t sound like it does solely due to changing the exhaust runners (though it does play a role), it’s mainly because of head design. In actuality, this car is coming along much quicker than I personally expected.
To me it sounds like a 2ZZ-GE in lift just because of that high mechanical raspy sound. Sounds like this… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O8QEPC41c4
And yeah, sounds same as GT5 video of it except this is more louder and clear, very nice sound
The engine is a 3ZR-GAE 2.0 16v l4 valvematic unit with the usual yamaha tuning (plus a very good easter egg)
i know that a boxer engine fitted with a tuned length manifold doesn’t sound anything like an actual boxer engine, they sound like a normal 4cyl. think all this commotion could because toyota fitted a decent manifold to it like the old 20v?